Phil Kessel-Who is right?

[LAKingsGM]

Phil Kessel's agent is saying he's done in Colorado after being told he and his hefty salary were to be shipped to the AsHL. Colorado claims they have given the player ample time this season and no results. Who is right?

[ColumbusGM]

With Kessel's stats compared to Kesler's, I think that waiving Ryan Kesler would be more logical than sending Kessel down.

Kessel has the higher points per twenty minute rating, and the higher plus minus.

Sorry Rob, I think you made the wrong choice this time, but hey, we can still talk a Kessel to Columbus deal... right?lol

EDIT: I better not be the only one to comment here...

[Anaheim GM]

Anaheim is not interested in Phil Kessel.

There is no one who is going to be able to argue to me that a Ryan Kesler or a Phil Kessel should EVER be put in the minor leagues for anything other than injury conditioning. To do so is totally unrealistic, ridiculous, and in my opinion, a fundamentally poor decision.

Should you be able to do whatever you want with your players?

You sure can. Just don't expect everyone to like it.

[LAKingsGM]

I've always aired on the side of the very premise this league was founded on. "Realism."

If it's realistic, I do it, if it isn't, I don't. Kessel, with his skillset, should be found no where near a farm team. Whether you have 85 other forwards or not, it shouldn't happen. That's my opinion as the GM of the LA Kings not the Commissioner of the NsHL.

[Detroit Cherni]

If I were to put my former Sports Journalist hat on, I think it's in every right in the NEW NHL for the General Manager to send his player down on a conditioning stint if he's not performing at the big league level. So I am siding with Rob.

The General Manager's job is to ice the best team possible, and not cater to a Player Agent. The Agent has one thing on his mind, the client. The GM has his team and his fan base and ownership in mind. If a player isn't capable of playing up to the General Manager's wishes, the GM 100% has the right to do with said player as he wishes. That is the GM's right because the GM's job is to win.

Now if the PA decides to go public with it, that's their choice, however if I were in Rob's shoes, I wouldn't trade him. That's giving in to who is running the team. Now I had the same situation last year in Atlanta with Jeff Carter not playing up to his potential. I NHL re-rated him. I put PDP's into him, and he was a flipping bust for me, and he got all the playing time he needed. At season's end, I made the decision to move him for Dion Phanuef, because I knew he no longer fit in my organisation. What the PA has done is backed the Colorado GM into a corner here, where asking for a trade should (maybe it was) have been kept out of the public eye. Therefore the PA can only expect the Colorado GM to act the way he has and deny any trade request, public or private.

[coloradogm]

I never said that I gave Kessel ample time "this season" only that he's had plenty of PT over the past two years. Let me go on record that I could care less what anyone else thinks about this as I'll run my team as I see fit and if the NsHLPA, the President or the Pope doesn't like it so be it.

[Detroit Cherni]

For those who aren't in agreeance with Rob's decision, I do have an example. I know there's more than just this player, but the prime recent example of this happening in the NHL is the Edmonton Oilers vs. Sheldon Souray. Souray is an NHL caliber defenseman. The difference is the Oilers have tried to shop him but under the Salary Cap rules, no team could afford him. Edmonton thought is wasn't playing an Oiler's brand of hockey and his attitude stank while his play dropped off, so they shipped him to the Minors.

Perfectly logical....

[ex-BluesGM]

I too am on the Avalanche side in this. Mostly for the reasons outlined by Dave. Again we speak in "realism." Realistically no one has a "skill set" that is attributed to a bunch of numbers that someone with a spread sheet can compare to other players on a squad day in and day out. And the sabremetric type of people who do that kind of stuff have the numbers running fluidly all the time so when someone doesn't perform their numbers drop in the eyes of scouts. Let's just talk about this season. It looks as though Kessel has played 43 games. That's a lot. While he may only gotten 90 min of ice time in that 43 game period, we as GMs in this league can't control how much our 4th liners play. To come in and say ROb should've been playing Kessel on a higher line, is out of line for any other GM to do. Again, "realism" if someone is on the 4th line and the play their asses off they get promoted. If someone is on the 3rd line and they don't put up the effort they go to the 4th, then the bench, then the minors. Its perfectly logical that if a player got 2nd and 3rd line time for most of a season and didn't produce that they would be sent to the 4th line and then on down the line.

From a realism point of view I'm sorry but there's no arguement against Rob's actions. YOu can agrue Kessel shouldn't be demoted but you'd be arguing based on his name and reputation and the skill-set in the league that he hasn't lived up to.

Now that doesn't mean you can't disagree with Rob's management. But disagreeing with how a GM manages his lines is really just opinion.... and we all know opinions are like A-holes.

Now on Mark's end, there are no shenanigins, that's for sure Mark is quite upstanding. The difficulty here is that Mark has to wear 3 hats in the league. GM, NSHLPA Dir, BOD member. That that puts him in a place of obvious and constant scrutiny. Mark, Nate, Rich and Mike have always done excellently in maintaining their integrity and that of the league so there's no question there... but there will always be a question when one particular situation is pointed out. For Mark to avoid such srutiny is near impossible without giving up a realistic part of the game which is the hold out.

We have to look at that angle too. While I believe Rob is 100% justified in his actions and right in the whole "arguement," we also have to accept that players in professional sports are typically a bunch of self-centered whiners when it comes to their egos. So Rob is right but its also realistic for Kessel to hold out.

Again the problem here though is ego by the GMs. Rob doesn't have trade Kessel and quite frankly in real life if he stuck to his guns eventually someone of Kessel's stature would probably give in and play after some sort of public compromise was reached that made each side look like they won. I sincerely doubt that in our sim-world where players aren't real people with bills and needs that Mark would've ever given in if Rob just decided to let Kessel hold out.
Also, BTW, we don't know for sure if this was attempted to be handled in private first but going public totally screwed the franchise here. Which does happen in real life but also usually ends in real life with the holdout not getting what they want cause the team can't get a good deal anymore once its public...
In the end its a conundrum (sp?) and I hate to see someone like Rob leave the league over it. And I hope that this time the egos of everyone- including Rob and our BOD can get put aside to realize that we're all better off with each other.


Also I would ask did the PA not see that Col was putting players on the block that would open the door for Kessel to quickly return?

[NsHLPA Director Mark]

You have made valid points, Gavin, and I certainly do appreciate them.

However, the NsHL does have a skill set to look at (which is an excellent tool and road map for engineering a successful franchise) and therefore should be used effectively. Listen, we can't attend practice, visit the locker room, etc. to see if players "hearts are in it" so we have to use the tools that we have to make the proper decisions.

My issue with Colorado in this case was the fact that a high profile player was sent to the minor leagues after averaging less than 2 minutes of ice time per game this season. This is 100% unacceptable for this particular client of mine.

I feel as though I am beating my head against a wall, however, I am going to say this again:

This season, Phil Kessel has been absolutely ignored and completely neglected. For what reason? He didn't do well last year? This is a new year and a new opportunity so I am not going to buy that ridiculous reasoning for one second. If he is not fitting in with your plans you have to take the bull by the horns and make a change. Doing nothing for half a season and then blaming someone else is not going to extinguish my fire, sorry.

In this case, the Colorado GM has admitted that he did not know that Kessel was being ignored because he was not even following his own franchise's lines, plain and simple. This was by his own admission, for God's sake.

Furthermore, I would expect that nearly everyone would vote to side withe their fellow GMs because these ideals tie the hands of GMs in a small way. In addition, the posturing of the NsHLPA makes the league that much more challenging for its members, and in general, human nature strives to avoid conflict. Do you, as a GM, want to be able to put your players wherever you want whenever you want? Of course, however, it is ABSOLUTELY NOT REALISTIC. There are dozens of quality fantasy leagues that are fit for those who want to remove realism from their hockey experience here at the NsHL.

The NsHLPA addressed this situation on the basis of realism and found it to be an egregious example of mismanagement and neglect (in our humble opinion). Our office will CONSTANTLY attempt to point such things out and will continue to do whatever we can (with whatever means possible) to help our players. We have no other choice and make no apologies for doing so.

[NsHLPA Director Mark]

The NsHL IS NOT A FANTASY LEAGUE, IT IS A SIMULATION LEAGUE. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS, KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, AND ACCEPT IT.

Some cannot. Some are no longer here because of it.

[ex-BluesGM]

Here's a question... and maybe I should know the answer to this but I don't....

How are we expected to control the time our lines get on the ice? This is NOT SARCASTIC at all.
I was just looking at my mins played, which I look into every so often but have never compared them to any other teams. My fourth liners are playing far more the Kessel got to play in Col. He got 90mins in 43 games. I have players like Kaleta who have well over 200mins 4th line in 38 games. My other fourth liners have even more time.

Does this have to do with our strategy somewhat. With our players DU ratings?

[Anaheim GM]

It actually means that Phil Kessel was on the active lineup but not playing on ANY of the lines.

In other words, he was part of the 20 man team, however, his position was being filled by someone else. It would the be same has having four RWers and double shifting your second RWer to play on our fourth line which would leave out your true 4th line winger.

Even the sim recognizes it and will throw him in for a minute or two if there is an injury or penalty.

In this case, it means that Phil Kessel, although listed on the active roster for 43 games, was most likely NEVER slated to play on the top four lines. Very sad. I wonder why the NsHLPA was upset with Colorado?? Hmm....

[MontrealGM]

I am going to get killed for this. I voted for Kessel to the A

Here is why.

It sets a dangerous precedent for the PA and league to step in and overturn a demotion for what ever reason a GM has to demote a player. We as GM's have been given the right to run our clubs as we see fit.
The last few seasons I was fed up with Ovechkin and his under performing with all the players I surrounded him. I traded him.
Hopefully the GM was actively seeking a deal for Kessel if not the players agent should be actively seeking a deal for him. That I thnk is the role of the PA.
Now. It sets a very very dangerous precendent for the GM who does that. The PA or players agents look at this GM and team as not a desirable place to play. So, we open another can of worms. The GM could be black balled and then he would quit because no players want to come and play for his team.
In all realism this is the scenario I think could play out. Colorado sends down Kessel after thinking about all consequences of that action. Kessel and his agent are pissed and should be. But have to think about performance. He doesnt report. Colorado has a choice to suspend him or actively try to trade him. As well as his agent. Realistically his value is not very much because of this action. This is all real world stuff.
I dont think the league wants to be like the Democrats and have the PA and BOD be a bloated mass that controls all aspects of our day to day functions. Exercise freedom I say. This is what North America is based upon. GM has freedom to do what he thinks is best. Player has options to do what his rights entail.
In realism it makes for good drama and news.

Rick
Montreal

[MontrealGM]

Part two to this issue.

If the GM did not even realize Kessel was hardly playing and not following his team. The league should give him a written notice that if he does not want to be active there are other GMs in waiting who would. That is reasonable and again realistic.
If the GM is still arguing his case even when he is not active, It shows where his head is. In realism again, leagues have taken over teams where the owner no longer can run the team and then transfers ownership to a new responcible owner.
The league and PA do have rights to watch such a franchise in keeping league integrity. Maybe make sure he is sending in lines daily. Maybe reporting what trade offers are on the table from both the GM and PA. If a GM makes a random move and is not active after. I dont think the league or other GM's want him in the league.

Rick
Montreal

[LAKingsGM]

The problem with letting GMs do whatever they want with their players as they 'see fit' leaves all the marbles in the hands of the GMs. If you think that the GMs of the NHL have all of the marbles, ask Garth Snow how that Nabokov thing worked out or Brian Murray with Dany Heatley. If the GMs of the NsHL have all of the marbles, that just wouldn't be realistic for the NsHL now would it? No.

In our league, if you play Phil Kessel 90 minutes over the course of 43 games, his rating (HIS WORTH) is going to take a beating and I'm pretty sure that in the NHL, if Phil Kessel was getting 2 minutes a game in Toronto, the world would be hearing about it from him and his agent.

So.... who looks out for this? His agent HAS to look out so that his client is playing, his stock is being maintained or better yet rising so that when the next pay day comes, cha ching. $$$$$

THAT is what the NsHLPA (AGENTS) are designed to do and that's how it has worked for so many years. I'm not certain why this isn't clear.

The GMs most certainly have the freedom to run their team the way they see fit. That is true.

HOWEVER, the agents of the players have the freedom to manage THEIR clients how they see fit and they have the right to question how their client is being treated by their team and have methods of recourse (ie. holding out, not reporting, demanding a trade). That's how it works.


Nathan Kopsack