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Post by ColumbusGM on Feb 4, 2011 17:53:11 GMT -5
In the end, was Rob right to send Kessel down? Yes, it's his team, he could hire a horse to coach for all I care. What I do care about is realism, and anyone who believes Phil Kessel would report, and not demand a trade after that treatment, is, well, clearly a drooling fool.
This move went exactly as it should. It's a shame Rob couldn't see that.
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Post by MontrealGM on Feb 4, 2011 19:16:21 GMT -5
The problem with letting GMs do whatever they want with their players as they 'see fit' leaves all the marbles in the hands of the GMs. If you think that the GMs of the NHL have all of the marbles, ask Garth Snow how that Nabokov thing worked out or Brian Murray with Dany Heatley. If the GMs of the NsHL have all of the marbles, that just wouldn't be realistic for the NsHL now would it? No. In our league, if you play Phil Kessel 90 minutes over the course of 43 games, his rating (HIS WORTH) is going to take a beating and I'm pretty sure that in the NHL, if Phil Kessel was getting 2 minutes a game in Toronto, the world would be hearing about it from him and his agent. So.... who looks out for this? His agent HAS to look out so that his client is playing, his stock is being maintained or better yet rising so that when the next pay day comes, cha ching. $$$$$ THAT is what the NsHLPA (AGENTS) are designed to do and that's how it has worked for so many years. I'm not certain why this isn't clear. The GMs most certainly have the freedom to run their team the way they see fit. That is true. HOWEVER, the agents of the players have the freedom to manage THEIR clients how they see fit and they have the right to question how their client is being treated by their team and have methods of recourse (ie. holding out, not reporting, demanding a trade). That's how it works. Nathan Kopsack No question it is the agents job to check on the player. It took 43 games to see he wasnt playing? Checking on so many players may not be so easy as putting a pair of pants on..... my question to you is... who is putting Kessels pants on ? (Seinfeld fans might get that) Rick Montreal
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Post by FlyersGM on Feb 5, 2011 8:56:57 GMT -5
This situation could have been easily fixed. He could have put Ryan Kesler back at center and Phil Kessel back into one of the top 3 lines. You can't send a young player making 3.5 million per year over the next 5 years with a freakin NTC to the minors.
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Post by ex-BluesGM on Feb 5, 2011 13:05:56 GMT -5
It actually means that Phil Kessel was on the active lineup but not playing on ANY of the lines. In other words, he was part of the 20 man team, however, his position was being filled by someone else. It would the be same has having four RWers and double shifting your second RWer to play on our fourth line which would leave out your true 4th line winger. Even the sim recognizes it and will throw him in for a minute or two if there is an injury or penalty. In this case, it means that Phil Kessel, although listed on the active roster for 43 games, was most likely NEVER slated to play on the top four lines. Very sad. I wonder why the NsHLPA was upset with Colorado?? Hmm.... Yeah I thought of this a few minutes after typing it. One of the most disappointing things to come out of this affair is that Rob, a BOG member, wasn't actively following his team.
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Post by Carolina GM on Feb 5, 2011 14:19:19 GMT -5
THIS IS MY TAKE:
actually a player with a NTC can be sent to the minors, a NM (no movement) can not be (in the NHL). Ask Wade Redden as he sits in the minors with his NTC.
However, it is very unlikely that a team would be able to send a "star" player with a NTC to the minors for anything other than a "conditioning stint".
The only way it a player like Phil Kessel could be sent successfully to minors is if his contract was so ungodly that no other team in the league would claim him off waivers.
I hate Kessel and I would have claimed him.
Teams have to have the ability to send a youngster that haven't fully developed to the minors, i.e., a player with a lower OV for arguments sake.
But a 66OV like Kessel has is way to high to be sent to the minors without letting his agent now that it is only a conditioning stint and he will be right back up. However, it would be within the player's rights to not report and try and force a trade to a desired destination.
Sending a player to the minors without your agent's OK would probably strain your relationship with said agent.
Ron
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Post by FlyersGM on Feb 5, 2011 20:29:31 GMT -5
I didn't mean to use the NTC as interchangeable with a No Movement clause. I meant to say that after you have invested so much into a young stud you can't just throw them in the minors. Redden is a completlely different case then Kessel and I would understand that 100%.
Simply put, Kessel isn't a player that needs to "develop" in the minors. His ratings are way too good for that. The team didn't use him properly and don't take this the wrong way although I am an agent I support a GM's ability to do as he sees fit with his team 100%!
Also, OV has never been and will never be a consideration by the PA when evaluating a players talent. It is a totally useless stat.
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Post by Carolina GM on Feb 5, 2011 21:47:41 GMT -5
I definitely agree that it seems kind of pointless to send Kessel to the minors and no team in the real NHL would do so unless it was for a conditioning stint or because he made insane jack and was likely on the down side of his career .. like Redden etc.
Kessel still had trade value and thus would not be in Redden or even Souray's situation.
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Post by Anaheim GM on Feb 8, 2011 15:12:22 GMT -5
The fact that Phil Kessel was ignored, neglected, and then embarassed by being sent down to the minors, I feel, sets an EXTRMELY dangerous precedent for this league as well, Rick. A precedent, that I feel, a few are having a hard time understanding and digesting.
For instance: What is to say that GMs do not abruptly clean out their closets, stockpile superstars and then operate an organization like the 50s and 60's Notre Dame football team (i.e. placing them on their roster simply so that other teams cannot play them). It simply will not happen here in the NsHL because we will not operate our organizations like this. We are consistently searching for realism, folks, and if it ain't this office has a responsibility to do something about it.
If you would like to have Phil Kessel (74PA, 69SC, 80PH) playing in the minor leagues you certainly can. JOIN A FANTASY HOCKEY LEAGUE IMMEDIATELY that allows its "GMs" to do whatever they want with their players. There are millions of leagues, they are not hard to find at all. The bottom line is (PLEASE ATTEMPT TO UNDESTAND): PHIL KESSEL WAS GROSSLY NEGLECTED ALL SEASON LONG and than sent to the minor leagues. Why? Because his NsHL GM has THE OPTION under the Constitution TO SAVE THEIR OWN TAILS AND CAN RERATE PLAYERS if they drive them into the ground.
If this league had no rerates it would FORCE GMs to play the cards they hold, however, the system allows for players to have a bad year and GMs have the ability to rebound. This is not the case with Kessel as he wasn't even given an opportunity to succeed, people.
However, if you think that the GMs are going to have all of the flexibility in the world to create unrealistic situations by neglecting, ignoring, or trampling on the ideals of the NsHL you are totally and completely wrong. It will NOT happen on my watch. Ever.
It is VERY fortunate that the vast majority of GMs operate their teams realistically, however, if you think for one minute that the GMs of the NHL hold all of the cards you are simply out of touch with reality. The truth is, the NsHL needs more of this, I believe.
The fact that a player like Phil Kessel, with his massive skill set, and optimistic future would be neglected and mismanaged is a symptom of a FAR LARGER PROBLEM, FOLKS. A few of you are having a difficult time understanding it but it is CLEARLY VISIBLE.
GMs have every right to make decisions with their players, the NsHLPA does NOT want to handcuff its GMs and most certainly wants an positive relationship with each and every one of you. Its good for all parties. The player agents of this league absolutely do not have to like it when its players are mismanaged, though. We will continue to represent our players in the best way we can (understanding that this is not a full time job for any one of us, we do it in the time frame that we can afford). In this case, a player like Phil Kessel entering the minor leagues after the way he was treated would set a MUCH worse precedent than ignoring the move and allowing it to happen by having the NsHLPA keep quiet about it.
I am disappointed that a few GMs seem to be having a difficult time understanding this, however, the NsHL is NOT a fantasy hockey league. It is a simulation league and the NsHLPA will continue to strive to preserve the integrity of the league at the consequence of a new GM challenge or two.
I am not going to comment or beat a dead horse any longer. If you cannot understand or grasp the ideas that have been stated in these posts than please reference the Constitution (read it word for word) and ask me in private. Thank you,
Mark Kopsack
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