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Post by formerDevilsGM on Oct 24, 2008 14:52:07 GMT -5
On this subject I think you guys are just viewing the best scenarion available for your organization and thinking what in your teams best interest but at some point the players best interest has to come out.
Its not about who is a good GM and who is a bad GM in this point, its about a players being on the shelf not for a season but we are talking about 3 seasons and upwards of that when he could be playing already.
I dont disagree at all with what is convenient to your organization or not convinient that is not the point I am trying to make. There are organizations who have prospects who have been pro for 5 years or so and are still on the prospect list. I cant just see how that can be justified.
I feel in certain situations it can be justified to wait a bit to build up stats to create a player who can make an impact, but there is instances where you can say that if a players reached a certain amount of pro years and has not reached the NHL and make an impact then that player needs to be created to help the AsHL have current players in the system.. Because if you dont want to create that AsHL player to save money there is a GM out there who in need of an AsHL player and will spent that little bit of money to fill out his team.
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Post by ColumbusGM on Oct 24, 2008 17:48:46 GMT -5
If a team decides to keep a player as a prospect for too long they should be punished by the agent. Whether it is a case of the prospect demanding to be traded, or the prospect only signing a one year deal with his team so he can make more money faster.
Players want to be signed early, and should reward a team for that, and teams want the best value for their player when he comes in. Roll the dice both ways, the agents sort it out in the end.
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Post by mckeens on Oct 25, 2008 0:21:11 GMT -5
maybe we should raise the cost of keeping prospects to $5-10,000 a year?
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Post by coloradogm on Oct 25, 2008 9:48:33 GMT -5
The thing GMs need to take into account before we go making any radical changes as have been proposed. I was always under the impression that this was a SIM league which was intended to take on a life of it's own. I think that if we start removing players that no longer play in the league but have been developed by PT and PDPs (things that were put in place to allow the league to have a life of its own) the nwere are talking about a wholesale change in philosophy to the league.
I know that players like Johnson are not their equivalent in the NHL, but the thing you need to remember is that the rating are SIM based not NHL based. It has always been that way. To change this after so many years of play would be a horrible move and change the entire complexion of the league (which IMO has been pretty darn good the way it has been the past 5 years)
Plus we need to consider that the league is already behind schedule in terms of where we have been in the past. With the recent "housecleaning" many teams are going to lose players that they were planning on having around for this season and now must hope that they can find adequate replacements in UFA.
The thing I think we need in regards to this situation is a clearly defined rule in how we deal with the issue of players playing overseas. IMO this is too much of a gray area. We were always told in the past that as long as the player was still playing (even overseas) we could still use them in the SIM league.
There is a long history of players playing in the NsHL that did not play in the NHL. So why the sudden change in philosophy?
With all that being said, whatever the BOD decides is fine by me, I would just like to see clear ruling on this issue and assurance that it will not change so GMs can plan accordingly.
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Post by CalgaryGM on Oct 25, 2008 21:48:13 GMT -5
I've been watching this thread since it started. I like the idea that this league is almost and I must stress almost like the NHL. I like the fact that we can have players in our league that are average players in the NHL but superstars in the NsHL, or close to it. It gives our league that fantasy feel. If you look at it this way, it sort of balances out to a degree, where you have fringe players in the NHL or AHL, but make a major contribution in the NsHL and you have solid players in the NHL but are NsHL fringe players or on an AsHL team.
I may not agree with the removal of some players from the sim, but to give it a semblance of reality I guess it's a necessary evil. As for players that are removed because of their "defection" to other leagues overseas, perhaps we can have a rules discussion at our first GM's meeting, where the BOD can take the best of our ideas and go over them and implement them in the off season.
I have several that I think would be ideal, but I think we should have a proper forum for them, if the BOD chooses that we should have a forum for these ideas.
I have been in several different types of sim leagues and the NsHL is by far the best one. I am presently in one that is total fantasy with no relation to the NHL what so ever and we play 2 to 3 seasons in a calender year. I have been in a league where every player every year is rated according to his NHL counterparts, this I did not like.
Lets keep striving to make and keep the NsHL the best sim league out there.
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Post by ex-BluesGM on Oct 28, 2008 10:52:29 GMT -5
The thing GMs need to take into account before we go making any radical changes as have been proposed. I was always under the impression that this was a SIM league which was intended to take on a life of it's own. I think that if we start removing players that no longer play in the league but have been developed by PT and PDPs (things that were put in place to allow the league to have a life of its own) the nwere are talking about a wholesale change in philosophy to the league. I know that players like Johnson are not their equivalent in the NHL, but the thing you need to remember is that the rating are SIM based not NHL based. It has always been that way. To change this after so many years of play would be a horrible move and change the entire complexion of the league (which IMO has been pretty darn good the way it has been the past 5 years) Plus we need to consider that the league is already behind schedule in terms of where we have been in the past. With the recent "housecleaning" many teams are going to lose players that they were planning on having around for this season and now must hope that they can find adequate replacements in UFA. The thing I think we need in regards to this situation is a clearly defined rule in how we deal with the issue of players playing overseas. IMO this is too much of a gray area. We were always told in the past that as long as the player was still playing (even overseas) we could still use them in the SIM league. There is a long history of players playing in the NsHL that did not play in the NHL. So why the sudden change in philosophy? With all that being said, whatever the BOD decides is fine by me, I would just like to see clear ruling on this issue and assurance that it will not change so GMs can plan accordingly. Well said
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Post by FlyersGM on Nov 6, 2008 1:59:50 GMT -5
Guys, our BOD does a great job and we know that. Wouldn't you all agree, that at this point, after 5 years we need some new blood...some kind of injection into the BOD? We can preach all we want, but this isn't a democratic system, so ultimately our say doesn't have much significance.
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Post by Detroit Cherni on Nov 6, 2008 15:20:33 GMT -5
That's a pretty brave comment Jack, considering it's this current BOD, namely Nate, Mark and Mike, who shell out of their own pockets to make this league work. They're the ones paying for the website and any other expenditures. They're the ones who pay for the trophies. They're the ones to do all the hard work in keeping everything up to date.
I've tried to stay out of this thread, mainly because I don't agree with most of the arguements here. But what you're forgetting Jack, and don't get me wrong I'm not trying to sound like a prick here, but this is THEIR league. They can do with it as they please, as they're the founders and not once have they asked for a penny to come out of yours, mine or any other GM's pocket. Therefore, they can do what they please to make this league work. Personally, I agree so far with everything they've done.
The other thing is, you have no idea how hard these guys work at this. I was absolutely blown away when I was at this year's draft, at how much work Nate and Mark put into this. Those boys were running roughshot all weekend. And to see, just on draft day one, to see the stress Nate in particular is under (with big help from Mark and Adam), personally, I wouldn't do it. But they do because they know what this league means to not only themselves but to everyone involved.
So to say it's time to inject some new blood into the BOD, that's their decision not mine or yours. It's their league. And really, they can do as they please.
Now I understand there are tweaks and changes that could be done. The BOD knows that as well. But they also have the tough task of trying to keep 30 GM's happy. And what works or sounds like will work for me, may not work for 2 or 5 or 10 or more GM's. The BOD making the league more realistic without hurting the integrity of the sim had to be done. I think it's complete bullshiit that we're even bittching about this. This is something that affects EVERYONE, not just one or two GM's. As for not being prepared, well if you talked with the Twin Towers, you'd know that there was change coming. You had time to prepare. I did. I took hits as well. Brent Sopel comes to mind for me. I had to withdraw a contract offer because he dropped steadfastly. Ruined some of my plans. This change has affected us all. But you have to realize it's to keep the game fresh, new and exciting.
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SJSharks
Minor League Grinder
Posts: 472
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Post by SJSharks on Nov 6, 2008 20:43:56 GMT -5
I like that the NsHL is a good mix of both fantasy and the real NHL. Having the pending UFAs rerated to their NHL counterparts, I thought, would be a good idea for the most part. Give some more juice to the league. The removing of some of the players due to them not being in the NHL for a certain period of time I thought was an alright idea. What I did like is they gave you a choice on some of those players on whether you'd want them deleted or to hang on to them for now. If the BOD thinks that there are more than enough players in the league even without these players, then that's good by me. The removing of prospects is something that had to be done. Been there and done that with my own league when I was using FHL.
Having to create prospects after a certain amount of time I'd have no problem with. In my own league, there's a 30 NHL game limit for prospects. Once their NHL counter part plays 30 NHL games, they have to be created by the end of the season or go UFA. I seen a season or 2 of a prospect playing in the NHL then they have to be created was suggested. That's more than enough time for a prosepct to be created I think. I, myself, am one GM that is keeping my prospects on this list for as long as I can. Try to keep them on there so I get a free NHL rerate on them. However, at the same time, I'd like to use them and use PDPs on them so I can use them now and use the rerates later. So whatever happens in terms of prospects, I'll be behind either way.
As for new blood in the BOD, I feel there is no need for it. They are doing a great job and until they prove other wise, why fix it if it's not broken?
I feel the changes that have happened over the last while will shake things up a bit, whether they are good or bad.
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Post by ex-BluesGM on Nov 6, 2008 22:35:55 GMT -5
To say the the league BOD needs "new Blood" is ridiculous!
I'd say the only thing I'd ask is perhaps for a little more input or warning when such sweeping changes are coming... partiularly from those who are very involved. mark, Nate, Mike, Adam they certainly don't have to do it, but it might be nice, and certainly would stave off a saturation of complaints.... fair or not, when you're in-charge you get complaints and if you're good at being in charge (like these boys are) you can deal with it...for the most part anyway.
What I didn't like about the recent flush is that it inadvertantly rewarded some teams that had managed their teams very poorly, especially financially. Pulled them right out of trouble which changes so much about the game especially for those of us who take all aspects of it into acount.
I know that this particular scenario was brought on by a bit of an emergency.... sim-wise and it was an emergency that many if not all of us had a hand in by hoarding prospects and the like. But once again like with the money- a certain few who really abused the system hurt the rest of us.... The BOD didn't hurt us, they reacted, and drastically to fix a situation.
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Post by coloradogm on Nov 6, 2008 23:08:37 GMT -5
I hve no problem with any decisions that were made by the BOD. The league has not come as far as it has without the sacrifice and effort of the BOD and the GMs that have played in this league for any amount of time (and that is most GMs as there is very little turnover in the league)
However, the thing you need to realize when You, Jack, myself or ANY Gm speaks out their mind they are not doing it to be "disrespectful" or unappreciative, they voice their opinion because the GMs have also paid a price to be in this league with time, energy and emotion. That is what makes this league great, the GMs. The passion and commitment of our GMs is second to none. The fact that a GM would voice concern over anything tells me that they care and are committed to this league.
With all that being said, I do not feel the need for new blood in the BOD as they have always done a great job. I know this housecleaning made it tough on all of us (the commish included) but in the long run will make our league better.
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Post by FlyersGM on Nov 7, 2008 20:35:24 GMT -5
You all have great ideas and I appreciate your dedication and willingness to jump to peoples aids, but you need to look past whats right in front of you and get with the program. Gavin, in your post that seems to be bashing me, you go ahead and list 3-4 suggestions that you felt would have 1) improved the league and 2) made the transition easier for people.
Dave, your post is interesting, considering you're usually one of the first people on the board to always get involved in throwing ideas around and you've done a pretty good job yourself in this particular thread. If anything, I did not complain ONCE about any of the changes that were made this summer. Never. Thats the difference. It shocks me that you then go on a 3 paragraph rant about how the BOD can do this, and that.....blah blah. I think you don't understand my point. I never once suggested a current member of the BOD shouldn't be there, but for the league to move forward, have more NHL realism and so forth, the BOD needs help. Period.
If you can't see this right now, then you probably never will, but it's clear to me that this is a lot of work for only a few people to do, and the league needs a few GMs to represent them as a whole to the BOD. Why? Because we all have ideas, suggestions, etc. and the only way for them to get recognition is to do this.
I'm sure plenty of people agree with me, but for whatever reason are too intimidated to say so.
Speaking of throphies...I'm still waiting for my AsHL championship one!
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Post by ottawagm on Nov 7, 2008 21:17:51 GMT -5
You all have great ideas and I appreciate your dedication and willingness to jump to peoples aids, but you need to look past whats right in front of you and get with the program. Gavin, in your post that seems to be bashing me, you go ahead and list 3-4 suggestions that you felt would have 1) improved the league and 2) made the transition easier for people. Dave, your post is interesting, considering you're usually one of the first people on the board to always get involved in throwing ideas around and you've done a pretty good job yourself in this particular thread. If anything, I did not complain ONCE about any of the changes that were made this summer. Never. Thats the difference. It shocks me that you then go on a 3 paragraph rant about how the BOD can do this, and that.....blah blah. I think you don't understand my point. I never once suggested a current member of the BOD shouldn't be there, but for the league to move forward, have more NHL realism and so forth, the BOD needs help. Period. If you can't see this right now, then you probably never will, but it's clear to me that this is a lot of work for only a few people to do, and the league needs a few GMs to represent them as a whole to the BOD. Why? Because we all have ideas, suggestions, etc. and the only way for them to get recognition is to do this. I'm sure plenty of people agree with me, but for whatever reason are too intimidated to say so. Speaking of throphies...I'm still waiting for my AsHL championship one! Well said Jack. I am happy to help the BOD with anything they ask. They just need to ask though.
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Post by Detroit Cherni on Nov 8, 2008 14:54:46 GMT -5
Now Jack, I am man enough to admit that I read your email in a different context, and with that I do apologize. And yes, I will admit, I too, have thrown out ideas to see what other people think and maybe the BOD would want to implement. I also agree with you that we do have very knowledgeable General Managers, who do have ideas to benefit the league. The way I read the thread was that a few of you were coming down on the BOD for their short comings, which is why I took the stand that I did. And like I said, if I mis-interperated what you wrote, then I hope you accept my apology.
That being said, I do know when I was at the draft, the BOD did ask me my opinions of things. However, this has been an off season from hell for the BOD and I didn't think they've been getting the respect they deserved because everything's so late to get going this year. I personally am itching to get going as well.
On the flip side, I do stand by my words in protecting the BOD's best interest. And like I typed out earlier, my opinions changed drastically after I saw all the work that went into the draft and draft day, first hand. It's stressful on those guys. It isn't fun.
Now, I also stand by my comments that I do feel that something should be done about the fact of hoarding prospects, who in real life have been playing pro for three or four seasons. I also like the reality that the game is becoming.
And I'm still believing that Mike Keenan is the best thing that's ever happened to the Calgary Flames.
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Post by coloradogm on Nov 8, 2008 17:42:26 GMT -5
I agree the reality was needed and I think the league will be better for it. I know Nate, Mark and Mike have the best interest of the league at all times. I also don't think anyone was being disrespectful in their questions about the status of the league. All things considered this league has run like a well oiled machine from day one and I think GMs forget how many other leagues have no stability whatsoever. The BOD in this league is a proven commodity and this league is strong.
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