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Post by FlyersGM on Mar 29, 2004 22:11:36 GMT -5
There is no established talent on the Penguins. All they have is question marks. They may have a chance at being an average team if they can pick up some core players..Did anyone say Jason Allison? If they can spend after a CBA agreement is reach upon.
As for my opinion of the Penguins, the future looks as bad as it is now.
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Post by LAKingsGM on Mar 30, 2004 10:50:29 GMT -5
Hey Jack,
Well, you are the only one I have heard or read ANYWHERE that thinks that way. No offense, but I give very little credence to your statement. Most analysts know better.
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Post by FlyersGM on Mar 30, 2004 14:14:06 GMT -5
I have Adriano's backing...
I haven't heard any analysts say that the Penguins will be good in a few years. What bright spots do they have? A ton of youth. Ryan Malone, Brooks Orpik? Marc Andre Fleury who played decent, but in the easiest possible way with no pressure on him at all?
All I have heard is that they have a lot of young players and there are big question marks on them. Look at what the highly touted Kris Beech has become. Michael Sivek may be on the same boat.
Like most teams there is no possible way for these young guys to develop,. They still hav guys such as Ryan Whitney, so we'll see but I think the Islanders are a perfect example of how you won't win with youth players that you pray will develop. We went through it for eight years until we traded for Yashin and Peca.
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Post by Commissioner on Mar 30, 2004 14:27:33 GMT -5
Okay Jack.
I forgot you were god of hockey. My apologies. <------(SARCASIM, EVERYBODY--LIGHTEN UP)
Again, you are the ONLY SOURCE that I have found that says the Penguins have no future. Check your sources.........or that cranium of yours.
It's called POTENTIAL....come on now, Jack...say it with me. P-O-T-E-N-T-I-A-L.
Every star in the NHL had it at one time. The Penguins have more on the ice then any other team. Several prospects won't make it, of course (any team has that), but the odds are much better with the Pens as they have MANY quality prospects PLUS diamonds that we're STILL picking out of the rough. (Talbot, Malone, Chiodo, etc.). Add a savvy vet or two and voila= Great hockey club.
With this plethora of young potential, one would surmise if you have even a gram of intelligence that the potential the Penguins have will come to fruition in a couple of years. It's not rocket science, Jack.
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Post by ex-BluesGM on Mar 30, 2004 15:20:47 GMT -5
The condeseding tone of that last post was completely uncalled for, I'm telling the commish...oh wait aminute  WHile I agree that there is potential on the Penguins. I agree with jack that their immediate future is bleak. Its got alot to do with money, over talent though. You never really know one way or another what will happen with the youngsters they could all flourish or flop and no one will know for sure until they get their chances individually. So really what any analyst has to say is just an educated guess until it happens...whether that analysis comes from papers, the internet, team scouts, or some of the ego-maniac in this very league [Nate, Jack, Mark, Gavin (what  ) none of it really means sh!t. That said, the Penguins have as much potential as the avg NHL system at this time...to say that they "have more on the ice then any other team" is however Laugh-able. |
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Post by carolinagm on Mar 30, 2004 15:32:17 GMT -5
Islanders tried to build a team around prospects and rookies? Why didnt they keep Bertuzzi, Spezza, Redden, Luongo, Dumont, Tarsnstorm, McCabe, Brewer? If they would of kept those players they would probably be 5 times better than they are now with half their current payroll... nice moves Wildman Milbury... nice!
;D
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Post by carolinagm on Mar 30, 2004 15:35:29 GMT -5
Pens do have more than the current NHL team.. if they can draft very high for a couple more year they will have a great young team... just look at Ottawa now. It took them a long time but this team wasn't built around doing crazy ass trades... this year they went and got veterans and depth because they know they have a legit chance for the cup.
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Post by Commissioner on Mar 30, 2004 18:19:31 GMT -5
WHile I agree that there is potential on the Penguins. I agree with jack that their immediate future is bleak. That said, the Penguins have as much potential as the avg NHL system at this time...to say that they "have more on the ice then any other team" is however Laugh-able. The Penguins have graduated 9 prospects from their organizational depth chart yet still remained ranked 9th in overall depth concerning prospects/young talent. They have more potential ON THE ICE then any other team, I will put my $$ where my mouth is: Konstantin Koltsov, Ryan Malone, Brooks Orpik, Tomas Surovy, Kris Beech, Milan Kraft, Marc-Andre Fleury, Sebastien Caron and Rico Fata have all seen large chunks of NHL time this season and with much success. (not in the standings, but in development and experience along with statistical growth). Add to that bluechippers like Ryan Whitney and Michal Sivek along with Noah Welch, Matt Murley, Sergei Anshankov, Ross Lupaschuk, Ben Eaves, Maxime Talbot (WJC player and co-captain), Colby Armstrong....(trailing off). The list goes on. The fact of the matter is simple. The Penguins ARE PLAYING their young talent while other teams are choosing slower routes of development. So to say that the Penguins have more POTENTIAL on the ice than any other team is not a false or "LAUGHABLE" statement, Gavin. It most certainly is a fact. Will this team be going for the Stanley Cup next season? Absolutely not. In fact, NO one will be if there is a lockout. I think the Penguins were smart in developing and playing their talent THIS year. They will have much sought after experience when play resumes in two years. Will they be a contender then? With the financial climate changed and an arsenal of young talent. Look out for PIttsburgh for year's to come. I rest my case. |
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Post by torontogm on Mar 30, 2004 18:25:26 GMT -5
The Penguins have graduated 9 prospects from their organizational depth chart yet still remained ranked 9th in overall depth concerning prospects/young talent. They have more potential ON THE ICE then any other team, I will put my $$ where my mouth is: Konstantin Koltsov, Ryan Malone, Brooks Orpik, Tomas Surovy, Kris Beech, Milan Kraft, Marc-Andre Fleury, Sebastien Caron and Rico Fata have all seen large chunks of NHL time this season and with much success. (not in the standings, but in development and experience along with statistical growth). Add to that bluechippers like Ryan Whitney and Michal Sivek along with Noah Welch, Matt Murley, Sergei Anshankov, Ross Lupaschuk, Ben Eaves, Maxime Talbot (WJC player and co-captain), Colby Armstrong....(trailing off). The list goes on. The fact of the matter is simple. The Penguins ARE PLAYING their young talent while other teams are choosing slower routes of development. So to say that the Penguins have more POTENTIAL on the ice than any other team is not a false or "LAUGHABLE" statement, Gavin. It most certainly is a fact. Will this team be going for the Stanley Cup next season? Absolutely not. In fact, NO one will be if there is a lockout. I think the Penguins were smart in developing and playing their talent THIS year. They will have much sought after experience when play resumes in two years. Will they be a contender then? With the financial climate changed and an arsenal of young talent. Look out for PIttsburgh for year's to come. I rest my case. Great post....but hope their finances don't cause them to move before this team becomes a good one. |
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Post by Commissioner on Mar 30, 2004 18:30:30 GMT -5
That's the only concern around here...that we won't get a chance to see it. Good point. I hope the CBA helps us out.
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Post by FlyersGM on Mar 30, 2004 18:48:09 GMT -5
Islanders tried to build a team around prospects and rookies? Why didnt they keep Bertuzzi, Spezza, Redden, Luongo, Dumont, Tarsnstorm, McCabe, Brewer? If they would of kept those players they would probably be 5 times better than they are now with half their current payroll... nice moves Wildman Milbury... nice! ;D Dick Tarnstrom? Come on now..he's a fifth to seventh defenseman on a good team. He was also like 28 when the Isles put him on waivers. The Bertuzzi/McCabe move was an attempt to get a veteran player who was still young at the time (26) in Trevor Linden. Which was not a bad move considering what Linden was. Wade Redden was dealt for Bryan Berard which was a fine move in my opinion. I can live without JP Dumont.  Jason Spezza/Zdeno Chara were part of the Alexei Yashin deal, and anybody with any brains would do anyday to bring credibility to a team. I don't like the Luongo move, but it's not like he dealt him for veterans. We got Mark Parrish and Oleg Kvasha for him and we then drafted Rick DiPietro. Out of all the moves Milbury has of course a few were bone head moves, but every GM makes mistakes. There are many people out there, including myself who believe a lot of the moves were necessary. |
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Post by FlyersGM on Mar 30, 2004 18:56:02 GMT -5
First off Nate, if you want me to read anymore then the first two lines of your posts, talk like a normal person, I noticed this only happens when you talk to me. Don't talk down to me, because I am not one of your minimum waged immigrant workers who can't even speak english.
The other teams who are taking the "slower routes" are taking the correct routes to development.
You can't put Konstantin Koltsov, Ryan Malone, Brooks Orpik, Tomas Surovy, Kris Beech, Milan Kraft, Marc-Andre Fleury, Sebastien Caron and Rico Fata on the ice and expect them to play well. In fact, I believe this will only hinder there development and keep them from ever fulfilling there potential. Only the few exceptional top prospects (Nathan Horton, Illya Kovalchuk, Dany Heatley and you know the others) can step in and play now. As for the others they should be in the AHL developing for however long it takes which the Penguins cannot do.
Just remember what happened when they tried bringing up Milan Kraft at first...this year was his last chance for christ sakes, he was on the brink of being traded for low value.
After the Jagr trade Beech started off the year with the club and what did it do for him? I think it is quite obvious that he wasn't ready and is still suffering because of that today.
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Post by carolinagm on Mar 31, 2004 0:13:21 GMT -5
Milan Kraft? He's having a good season, 39 pts in 63 games and he's -18 (probably the best on the team). He's only 24 and it has been proven that most players have their career year at 27. He's still full of potential. As far as Beech goes... he will probably pick it up... if not you still have a huge pool of young players.
I got to see Luongo in his final years in the Q when he was playing for my home team in Bathurst at the time... i saw at least 10 games of Fleury last season when he played Moncton and Halifax... Fleury is better than him at that level.
I can't wait to see him in a few years. He's the real deal.
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Post by Commissioner on Mar 31, 2004 10:25:10 GMT -5
My apologies Jack, if you felt I was 'talking down' to you.
I just don't put much or any credence to anything you say in regards to the Penguins. Comprende, ustedes?
And for the record, I have no one in ANY of my facilities making anywhere close to minimum wage, Jack Spratt. I didn't appreciate the comment. Also, we all speak English! ;D
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Post by ex-BluesGM on Mar 31, 2004 12:46:27 GMT -5
Nate we can agree to disagree and that's fine with me you're entitled to your opinion. and I knew that you were joking above (SARCASM) My points are that A) The fact that the Pens are playing alot of youngsters doesn't mean they have more potential then other teams...you're right, for that organization its a smart move at this time...but that doesn't mean they have more just cause they've chosen to play some now. B)Being ranked 9th (which is only just in the top 3rd of the league) is nice and all, but as I stated above that's just analysis, which again is just educated opinion...not fact C)to make a statement that anyone has potential is a fact. to state that any one entity (team in this case)involved in a system with other entities with the same goals and opportunities has "more potential" then the others is an oxymoron, a paradox if you will by mere definition of the word potential...hence saying that its a fact that one team has more potential then the others is a false-hood unless there are more players in the the Penguins farm system then any others. Do the Penguins have 60 player while the others only have 25?  No. D) Is this the kind of debating you like? E) Comprende, ustedes- is f'n funny! F) No team has wasted their minor league system more then Islanders in recent years, there's no defending them...esp as yashin keeps putting up mediocre, numbers and uninspired performances! |
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) none of it really means sh!t.
No.