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Post by Carolina GM on Aug 6, 2018 19:36:20 GMT -5
This wasn’t Jack’s player.
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Post by FlyersGM on Aug 6, 2018 20:16:42 GMT -5
How did I know, before finishing the article, that this would have been a negotiation with Jack. A NCAA Div. 12 goaltender in his hay day, Jack has a soft spot for his fellow puck munchers! That being said, the money was right. The playing time was wrong. Glad the BoD and League Officials are working on this. Ron wears women's undergarments. LOL!!! I love my goalies, but the negotiation was not with me..
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Post by Carolina GM on Aug 6, 2018 20:29:30 GMT -5
Cherni has trouble thinking because his tinfoil hat is a bit too tight.
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ALL CAPS
Minor League Grinder
Season 21!
Posts: 274
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Post by ALL CAPS on Aug 6, 2018 22:32:34 GMT -5
Good conversation here boys. To let you all know, the goaltender games played issue is currently being discussed by the NsHL BOD. Expect to see a resolution shortly. I'll add, since my #1 goalie has been brought into this discussion, that the Capitals are in full support of what the league brings forward. I strive to play between the lines. Last season the schedule was laid out very weird from the get go. My team played 3 games in 4 nights for almost the entire season. However, Fleury didn't get injured or have issues with low energy/status. I was managing his energy, which is realistic. The year previous (season 14) I had a few goalies at the helm, but Budaj was my full-time backup and he saw action in 17 games, including 16 starts. The realism is more in managing the health and energy of your players. In this case, goalies were recovering like HGH was legal. Two of my direct competitors for a playoff (NJD and NYR) were utilizing the same strategy, and the golden standard (Carey Price) was not far behind. Everyone enjoyed goalies with high endurance last season much in the way teams enjoyed players scoring 76 goals like Tomas Vanek did in season 13 when 23 players had 100 points or more.
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Post by LAKingsGM on Aug 7, 2018 10:41:51 GMT -5
It's a shame that the BoG, BoD, and Commissioner have to look at things like this. Most GMs know "THE CODE". For those that don't or for those that choose to not play by it, that's why the constitution of this league was written and amended. We'd much rather this be a non issue. As Mike Ditka would say, "STOP IT!". Good discussion by all. All of this brought up some great points on all sides.
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nyrgm
Minor League Grinder
Posts: 347
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Post by nyrgm on Aug 7, 2018 12:47:28 GMT -5
With all do respect Nathan, you posted earlier in this thread that a starting goalie should be in the 60-70 range. Now your referencing "the code" but your back up only started 11 times last season. I'm not taking a shot, just simply stating that most of us are guilty of this and you are no exception to that. No need to imply that some of us are either oblivious, or intentionally choosing not to follow. We are all doing what we think is best for our team within the given parameters.
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Post by LAKingsGM on Aug 7, 2018 13:05:34 GMT -5
My goalie started 71 games. My back-up started 11. That's a realistic ratio for a high quality starter. Jonathan Quick, Hiller, Luongo, Rinne, Lundqvist have all started low 70's games within the last 5 years in the NHL. It is not common, but it is realistic for high quality starters. MOST goalies get 60-70 starts a season on average if you study the stats. I'm sure you don't. That's why I mentioned that figure range. It's quite common.
Anything above that is unrealistic and I will take that as a shot at me and it is noted.
You don't have to agree with me on it, Geordie. You are just wrong for not. But, no need to get defensive about it. You get a pass because you haven't been in the league all that long and I hope it's a lesson learned. ALWAYS side on realism. Always. Starting your goalie more than 70 couple times is UNREALISTIC. The Carter Hutton scenario brought up a great point. Better league for it.
#teachingmomentforeveryone
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Post by Carolina GM on Aug 7, 2018 22:14:09 GMT -5
I’ve looked at goalie starts dating back a number of seasons and let’s just say that it is very interesting.
Anyways, hopefully new and old alike start playing their goalies more realistically. I tend to play my back up in back to back games, especially if there is a three game in four night stretch. I also try to play my backup against teams run by GM’s that have been probed by 👽.
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SJSharks
Minor League Grinder
Posts: 472
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Post by SJSharks on Aug 8, 2018 1:40:46 GMT -5
Money looks good but he’d be using that may to get the splinters removed from his ass for riding the pine most of the season. I can see why he didn’t resign. Backups still want to play too.
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Post by NJDevilsGM on Aug 8, 2018 3:28:23 GMT -5
First, I'd like to say I'm glad there's a rule coming. I played my goalie 79 games but did so because he was healthy enough to do so, something that didn't happen in past years. I'm not sure if the settings for goalies changed or not to allow this. That said, I agree, put in a limit that goes for realism, I support that.
Secondly, I wish rule discussions could involve all GMs, or even give us a heads up of what's being mulled over. By the sounds of this thread this rule could be coming into play for next season yet most teams have made decisions for their goalies for next year based on the current system in place, as they should. Undoubtedly as well, had Geordie known that there would be a minimum number of games for a backup/max for a starter, he could have included that in his pitch to resign Hutton. If some sort of limit is coming in for next season then the fact Hutton only played 244 minutes starts to become irrelevant as it's a virtual guarantee he'll be playing more -potentially a lot more- next season given this new rule, including several more starts which it sounds like is possibly the biggest reason behind why Hutton is going to UFA in the first place.
I don't think giving GM's at the minimum a briefing of potential rule/sim changes coming down the pipe earlier would undermine the BoD/BoG in any way but it would sure be appreciated in order to better plan for the upcoming season.
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Post by LAKingsGM on Aug 8, 2018 6:12:45 GMT -5
Trent, this league was founded based on the principles of realism, not the game play of NHL 2017 for Playstation. Where have you ever seen an NHL goalie start 79 games? Truth is, the league shouldn't have to make this rule. AT ALL. We should have 30 GMs that try to do things as realistic as possible. But for the few, the constitution is there to guide.
This does NOT affect any teams. Everyone is this league has quality goaltenders. It's not an endurance issue. It's a realism issue and when GMs exploit the parameters even though it's not written down somewhere, then it has to be changed.
Starting your goalie 75-82 games has gone on long enough and the Carter Hutton situation raises a great point.
Nathan
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Post by LAKingsGM on Aug 8, 2018 6:17:45 GMT -5
...and the NSHLPA has and always and will be the realism police, when need be. It's how the league was set up. Geordie got caught this year and the back up behind Trent's superman goalie will be next if things don't change. And if you want to play Sidney Crosby in the minors, he'd be next too. If it doesn't happen in the NHL, don't do it in the NsHL as best as we can.
There shouldn't be a grey area. I hope it's a learning moment for everyone. Especially the newer GMs who push 'parameters'. There is an unwritten code. If you don't know what that is, ask a GM that has been around a long time about it.
If you just want to argue.....I know I've already spent too much time on it.
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Post by The_ZeroCool on Aug 8, 2018 6:30:43 GMT -5
What makes this league amazing is that the NsHLPA makes things interesting, realistic, and with some curve balls added in for good measure. I am actually suprised there isnt more/any arbitration hearings etc. NHL has 40+ scheduled hearings, and less then half of that actually go to arbitration (correct me if im wrong). the agents in NsHL also take into consideration that not all their players want money or to "ride the pine", they want to play the game. Sure some will be happy making the money and supporting their families throughout their career. But, maybe the agent of Hutton decided that his client is worth more playing time then the money and wants to see it guaranteed. Every player has the right to decline a contract. You could have offered him 10 mil a season, but maybe he just wants to be on the ice more? just my two cents! cheers!
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Post by avalanchegm on Aug 8, 2018 6:33:29 GMT -5
I'm glad to see the BOD put in a rule. I've been bringing this issue up annually for several years now. It's not realistic and those that did it knew it wasn't. I would think it's not too much to ask for our GMs to go by a code where, even if there isn't a rule about it, you should be able to tell right from wrong. Ive been in other leagues where the rules get so choked up to make all the rule abusers be held accountable. Let's not become tell that league. It kills the fun for everyone and diminishes what we have.
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SJSharks
Minor League Grinder
Posts: 472
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Post by SJSharks on Aug 8, 2018 9:28:46 GMT -5
Nathan, Trent isn't even arguing with you. He agrees, there should be something in there to set up the realism of the backup goaltender. He's just saying he's doing what his goalie allowed him to do. Yes, backup goalies should play more. Did I play my starter more than I should have? I did. I played Rinne 79 games last year. Did I do it to exploit a grey area or to break an unwritten rule?? No, I didn't. I was putting the best team out there as much as I can since my team was getting hammered almost every game. And if I didn't do that, I'd get told I'm tanking because of where my team was in the standings. So I'm glad a rule is getting put in for this. Hell, I even have a suggestion. After a goalie plays, say 1400 minutes, he gets suspended for the rest of the season. That's 70 games, give or take if your back up gets pulled. We had this situation in the other league I'm in. It got fixed with that. And since NHL is the basis for all of this, the most games played by a goalie this year was 67. 17 teams, this year, in NsHL played their starter 70 games plus. So more than half the league was breaking an unwritten rule, one of which was you as well, Nathan. And some of the others have been here awhile too. There's no need to slam people for going within the rules. We all agree, it's garbage, so make an easy rule change and it's all good.
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